Monday, December 03, 2007

BanPiracy, Waves and iLok


I was reading this earlier:

I found myself wondering the following:

What need is there for Banpiracy?

Waves plugins are iLok protected, and iLok hasn't been cracked, right?

Any ideas anyone?


// JLN // said...

Unfortunately for them, iLok has been cracked.

Not only Waves, but others effects developers were cracked :(.

Dave Sonalksis said...

I dont think you can announce that publicly.
If I am asked to remove your comment by PACE, I'm afraid I will have to.



Anonymous said...

Why would PACE have any influence at all? It is easy to see this and it's simply stating a fact. It's not violating any copyright they own to state this and it's not defamation since it is simply a fact (and is easily verifiable at that). It would be bad to remove the comment if asked by PACE. They have no legal grounds and you would simply be supporting their efforts to make their product seem effective and necessary when it is neither and is a pain in the neck to paying users.

I love the Sonalksis plugins by the way...

Dave Sonalksis said...

PACE have an influence because lawsuits have an influence.

We (developers) have pretty much all signed NDAs at some point, and those can be used to threaten us.

As the guy responsible for the blog, it falls on my head.


Anonymous said...

Ok, if you have signed an NDA with them there might be something they could use in a law suit but without one they wouldn't have anything.

The question your post raises is this - why would Sonalksis have an NDA with PACE or care what they think? Last time I checked my Sonalksis plugins didn't use any PACE copy protection at all. I sure hope you aren't considering using them in the future. I really hate copy protection, but the system you are using is far more tolerable than most of them.

Dave Sonalksis said...

I don't think it's a huge secret to reveal that many many years ago, Sonalksis signed an NDA in order to be able to evaluate PACE - and then decided against using it.

Likewise, I was in the beta group for PACE while I was at Focusrite (we PACE protected Forte Suite and Saffire Plugs), so I was (and probably still am) under NDA from that.

rydan, said...

Just wanted to say thank you for releasing high quality plugins and still trusting your customers enough not to make their life hard!!!

No copy protection hassle was and is a big issue for me when choosing your plugins.

I m h o, I still haven't found a copy protection scheme that makes life harder for those using cracks than those who pay for the software.

Anonymous said...

Dave, it's a shame that they used an NDA to hold over you regarding pulbic information even though you never used their product. Let's hope they don't try to apply the pressure.

PACE is copy protection at its worst and I for one am really hoping this boycott picks up some steam and gets developer's attention. I must admit to owning some iLok protected stuff although I hate this fact. A product must be about 10x better to get my money if it uses iLok, but there does come a point when the art must take precedence even over the hassles.

I am also grateful for the awesome Sonalksis plugins without a too painful copy protection. I prefer a simple serial number, but if copy protection must exist yours is one of the best systems.

The irony of copy protection is that I would guess that it leads some to cracks as a backup plan for plugins they have paid for. That is a slippery slope to start on and is definitely not what developers are looking for. How often is that taken into the companies using PACE? Sometimes it seems like developers share a certain mindset with the RIAA.

In the end providing value without hassle will get the money of honest customers and nothing will get the money of dishonest folks. IMO a system which simply tries to pinpoint the user who leaked software while not burdening honest, paying customers would be the best.

Developers could share the list of pirates and attack the problem by not selling to them.

Manfred said...

Best solution would be to have death penalty on piracy. Stalin wasn't that bad after all.

// JLN // said...

To manfred, come on, that's a bad joke.

I think there are better way to battel against it. It must became part of the education, and have a graduate sentence.

But that's not the topic ^^.

Anonymous said...

My personal take is the most copies would be sold if developers fully trusted users. Let me use your plugin for a while and if I find it indispensible I will buy it. Don't limit me be days or launches. Or add noise, etc. Maybe limit me to several hundred hours of use. Let me decide.

If I don't have to worry about having spent money on something it turns out I don't want then I will be more likely to try things out and purchase more of them. The problem is that developers don't trust us enough to allow this. You're lucky if a developer offers a 30 day demo that squirts noise periodically.

Under the current conditions I can't trust developers to for examply give me my money back if I buy it and it turns out that after a few weeks it isn't what I wanted (except Audio Damage of course). In turn, developers don't trust me to use the software I buy without sharing it with the world. It would be nice if a system was developed that allowed for trust on both sides.

When distrust is rampant it is no wonder that piracy flourishes. I am tired of getting stuck with plugins that catch my attention and I want to try out, but that don't turn out to be very useful (this is not the case with Sonalksis, but with a few others it has been).

Which is better for developers? If someone like me uses cracks as demos and actually purchases stuff I use or if I just throw my hands up and say I can't decide so I'm going to stick with the stuff that came with Logic (all for $500 I might add). I think developers would like some money from me, but they are also of course 100% opposed to the idea that their demos aren't good enough and that cracks might actually be more user friendly demos. This is sad as either they feel harmed by the user in some way (even if the user pays up for things that are useful) or they see no money because the user remained "honest" and never gave their plugin a fair trial.

Without a system that is fair to users and to developers the market is damaged. With heavy competition from bundled plugins that are of increasingly high quality I think the responsibility will fall to developers to fix this if they want to survive in the end.

k. said...

As a non user of ilok because i just can not stand usb dongles and anti-piracy software. I find it ridiculous that you need ilok for a stupid demo. Even if they offer ID serials, but a demo is ilok. I have passed many potential thousands of any currencies money because the demo required ilok. PACE loses plugin customers instead of having a secure usergroup.
I do have an arturia dongle, which i also don't want but it seems to install less crap on my computer than PACE softcrap.

Anonymous said...

Say what Manfred? In my country teenagers can try to cut a guy's head off with a hatchet and leave him a quadriplegic, and two of three perpetrators walk and the main one gets three years. This is within the last week in my own city. I don't know what it's like where you live, but suggesting anyone could possibly move from a justice system like this to the death penalty for pirating software - get a reality check.

JoHn said...

The new PSP Xenon is iLok, and afaik it's available already now a cpl of weeks after Xenon was released.

So iLok must indeed have been cracked.

Anonymous said...

I'm with k. One of the key reasons i went with Sonalksis is because i don't need an ilok.

I run Logic on a macbook with only 2 usb ports which i use for controller and interface. The main reason i got the macbook instead of an imac is so i can do field recordings. If i need an ilok i'll need to get a hub, and the hub will need to be powered for my controllers, etc which means i'll need a power outlet. Way too much to need to think about all for the sake of anti piracy. I have the perfect mobile rig and an ilok (or any other dongle for that matter) would ruin it.

I tried the 30 day Sonalksis demo, but i really only needed about 2 days to realise i had a quality product and in the end was happy to buy Sonalksis. I will give someone money if i like them, agree with their philosophy and believe that their product is going to add value to my work. I wouldn't dream of downloading cracked sonalksis software (or psp, izotope, camel audio, etc). Microsoft on the other hand...